Stance Reply #1 – State of Stance
Posted on July 21, 2010 by Guest Author in On the Road
This is a guest post from Tuck&Poke, sent in as a reply to http://www.drivendaily.org/owners/helladumb/.
To start off, my car has stretched tires and wheels that don’t fit so that there is no confusion. There are a few things about this post that I would like to address. I despise that people call it hellaflush. Hellaflush is a blog and an adjective that those people responsible for the blog use to describe the cars. It is in no way a universal word that everyone who is enthusiastic about this style uses. I will never go up to a car with flush wheel fitment and say “damn thats hellaflush”. Do I hate them for using it? No, everyone has their slang words used to describe different things, that’s just whats prominent in that area. You have wicked, they have hella.
Secondly, the cars are drive-able. I daily drive my car 365 days a year, up ramps, in parking garages, over speedbumps, you name it. I have gotten beached, and there are certain things I know my car cannot go over. Its a relatively small inconvenience that I am willing to deal with. If your going to criticize that, then you should also criticize any modification that reduces the drive-ability of any vehicle, like an aftermarket clutch that feels heavy, or a lightened flywheel, or high performance brake pads that don’t brake well until they get hot, high lift cams that roughen idle, sticky tires that struggle to pass 10K miles of use and are terrible in the rain. My car is no race car, I don’t track it, and I don’t care to, and there is nothing wrong with that. Not every car in the world has to be an optimized horsepower freak that can go around a track 2 seconds faster than it did stock. Now don’t misunderstand, do I enjoy those kinds of cars? HELL YEA, I love that, but I’m not going to do it to mine. There is also a lot of pride in the stance scene for daily driving the car, and driving it exactly how it is photographed. The overwhelming majority of these vehicles are most certainly not trailer queens.
There seems to be a tone of contempt that people in the stance scene know nothing about cars and are just a bunch of “ricers”. People define ricers in different ways, but one that most can agree upon are people that use cheap parts, and just in general do shoddy work on their vehicles. I as well as many others look down upon this, regardless of it being a 10 second drag car, or a car with the wrong wheels and stretched tires. Most of the wheels are in the thousands of dollars, the suspensions are extremely expensive. There is a lot of care taken into measuring and tire size and ride height. I was on audiworld the other day and some guy did a writeup on polishing the intake manifold, followed by someone saying this was a bad idea as it would increase IAT’s. This idiocy is rampant in “performance oriented” forums. If anything people in the stance scene know more about cars in general than these so called performance enthusiasts.
There is also an enormous misconception about stretched tires, which is probably one of the things enthusiasts hate the most about this culture. They say its dangerous, that the bead will become unseated, that we’re going to kill people because of this. People who have absolutely no experience, forming very strong opinions about it. I have ran stretched tires for close to 4yrs, and I’m not talking little kid shit, massive stretch. Not a single issue, no popped beads, no lost pressure, no tires mysteriously exploding, and no dead people. I’ve driven the car hard, for tens of thousands of miles.I’ve taken corners hard and not a single issue.
I know this was long and if you made it to the end, congratulations. The point I’m trying make is that there are a lot of misconceptions and generalizations. People need to stop getting all flustered about it and enjoy your cars and enjoy modifying them. I enjoy all kids of cars, from stance, to performance, to lowriders, to minitrucks. I consider myself a true enthusiast. To each his own, let others do as they please and worry about taking your own car to the next level, not so much about what someone else is doing.
This is actually well written, intelligent, and most importantly a realistic reason for the people who are really into “stance” or whatever you want to call it.
Personally though, I’m still throwing in the “stance” people with those with 1000 hour restoration projects that just sit in a garage.
I buy, own, maintain, and modify cars to DRIVE them, and I mean drive the living $hiat out of them. Function over form for me everytime. But hey, my respect goes out to this guy here for at leasting knowing why he’s doing what he’s doing and sticking to it.
+1 to daily driven stance.
I left a comment on the “Why Hellaflush Sucks” article before reading this, saying basically the same thing, maybe in a slightly less “diplomatic” tone, but pretty much the same points. Kudos to this poster, car culture is varied and colorful, I love all of it !, F#ck the haters!
I do appreciate you writing this up in a decent manner. (What a concept to write online like you actually have a brain! People kill me with that.) However, I must respectfully take exception with one of your main points….
“If your going to criticize that, then you should also criticize any modification that reduces the drive-ability of any vehicle, like an aftermarket clutch that feels heavy, or a lightened flywheel, or high performance brake pads that don’t brake well until they get hot, high lift cams that roughen idle, sticky tires that struggle to pass 10K miles of use and are terrible in the rain.”
The thing you are missing is most of these performance upgrades that compromise driveability do so for some sort of *positive benefit*. Its all give and take… For every gain there is some negative trade-off. Thats a HUGE point to ignore. It is the whole point.
Heavy clutches hold more torque, but suck for long trips or in traffic. Lightened flywheels make for quicker revs, at the expense of low speed driveability. Race pads improve pedal feel and stopping distances, in exchange for poorer cold performance. High lift cams add top end horsepower, in exchange for a rough idle. Sticky tires that kickass dry may suck in the rain. etc, etc, etc….
In ALL these cases there is some positive gain to be had in exchange for the negative. What is the positive gained from slammed suspensions? Nothing. It is detrimental to handling, grip, and ride quality. It is completely superficial – for looks… And these “good looks” are all a matter of opinion (We wouldn’t have these debates if not). That is commonly called fashion. Like it or not thats the truth.
And all of that said, I think anyone with any sense, that has been around modified vehicles for any length of time, has come to realize that all things are best in moderation. A stupid heavy clutch, stupid light flywheel, stupid big cam, whatever the case…. it is best to not go too extreme. Then you start getting more negative trade-off than benefit. Mod your ride with a little bit of common sense and you will enjoy it much more than going over-the-top with everything. I really shouldn’t have to spell all this out.
Are ‘stanced’ cars ‘rice’? No. Not by default. Shoddy work is shoddy work…. Doesn’t matter if we’re talking melon-shooter mufflers or gnarled fenders. Do it right or don’t bother. I don’t know what you were getting at with the comment about polished manifolds. Are stanceheads more knowledgeable than other auto enthusiasts? I think you will have a real hard time arguing that. It’s just the new fashion for the youngins for the most part.
Only comment I want to comment on, Stance is not new and its not for fashion. “Stancing” a car came from way back in the 60′s in japan. They would lower, add negative camber, and stretch tires on cars the would race. Stance has been around for a long time, its just become a hit. I love my jetta. Its no a race car, but it looks how I like it to look. And thats what matters.
To start off, my car has stretched tires and wheels that don